Pricing, Money Mindset and Selling as Yourself with Ray Dodd


Pricing, Money Mindset and Selling as Yourself with Ray Dodd


This week on The Wholehearted Business Show I’m chatting with the fabulous Ray Dodd.

Often described as ‘Not your average Money Mindset Coach’, Ray’s coaching is all about giving you the tools to break free from oppressive social expectations that are holding you back from reaching your full money-making potential.

Ray’s very favourite place to be is infusing nuance and diversity into the conversation around money. As someone who understands the interconnectivity of culture and business, Ray helps her clients shift their beliefs and liberate themselves from conformity conditioning, paving the way towards making plenty of money without compromising who they are and what they believe matters.

I’ve followed Ray’s work for a few years now and was so excited to have this conversation with her – it really got me questioning some of my own assumptions about money and I’m certain it will get you thinking too!

Tune in to learn:

  • Why the ‘traditional’ money mindset conversation is flawed
  • What you probably aren’t considering when it comes to pricing your coaching services
  • How to make your services work when you want to be inclusive and accessible
  • How to make sales less horrific!

Ray’s links:

Watch this episode on YouTube and subscribe to my channel here

Listen to this episode on The Wholehearted Business Show Podcast: Listen on Apple Podcasts / Listen on Spotify




[00:00:00] Hi there, welcome to the Wholehearted Business Show. I’m Laura and this week on the show I’m talking to the amazing Rae Dodd. She is just the best person to talk about all things money mindset and sales. So we have such a good conversation. If you ever feel a bit icky around sales, if you’re not sure how to show up for selling, if you question whether or not you have money blocks and you want to explore this whole topic, then this is the episode of the show for you.

Stay tuned, we’re going to have an awesome conversation. Let’s dive in.

Laura AW: So Hi, welcome to the whole heart of business show. I’m so delighted to be chatting with you today I’d love for us just to start off by you Telling all of the listeners watchers on youtube as well a little bit about yourself and your business 

Ray Dodd: So i’m a money mindset coach i’m often described as not your average money mindset coach Which is largely because I approach money mindset from quite a different angle than than most of the money mindset coaches I’ve certainly come across I would love there actually, rather than being in competition, I would actually love there to be more coming from the angle I come from, [00:01:00] which is basically, I really try and zoom out on money, because I’m sure everybody watching and listening will appreciate that money brings up so many feelings and thoughts and beliefs.

Both in ourselves and as we speak to other people about it as well. And traditional money mindset really lays that at the blame of the, at the feet of the individual. Like it blames the individual for that. Like you just need to be more positive. You got these money blocks, all of that stuff. And actually if we zoom out, like it’s baked into society.

A lot of people, when they start to work with me, we start to talk about this concept of scarcity, this belief that there is not enough out there for us. And it’s like people’s eyes are suddenly like, Oh my God. there’s scarcity everywhere. And sometimes I’ll get, like, people who’ve recently signed up, they’ll be DMing me on Instagram going, no, no, no, really, it’s everywhere.

I can’t stop seeing it. And it’s not just about, it’s not like you malfunctioned and you have this scarcity mindset that’s been given to you that you’ve just sort of developed [00:02:00] out of nowhere. It’s been handed down. by society and my, in my work, I particularly look at how that impacts people conditioned as women.

So that, that’s where we see it a lot for women and people conditioned as women. It’s just a bit of a minefield. I know I’m rambling on a bit, but just to give you one more example. Yeah, no, no, no, that’s amazing. I was having a chat with somebody at a family dinner party recently, who runs, a guy who runs his own business.

And he was asking what I do, and I was explaining, and he’s really lovely and very open to like, there was no mansplaining involved. And he was like He’s like, and I was saying, Oh, you know, like I help people think differently about money to really rewrite their money stories and sort of explain a bit.

And I said, like, say for example, at the moment, I think this is before everything happened in Palestine, but I think I was using the Ukraine war as an example, for example, with everything that happened is happening in Ukraine and Russia, when that kicked off, lots of the business owners that I work with were like, Oh, I should not sell right now.

There’s a bad thing happening in the [00:03:00] world. And his girlfriend was there and she was like, Oh yeah. And he was just like, what? What do you mean? They did, he’s like that, I’ve never, really? That’s how people think about that, but he’s like, we’re a business, what’s that got to do with anything? And he wasn’t being in any way, like, critical, or, he was just like, just genuinely, Never could.

Never imagined, and yet if you, his girlfriend was like, oh yeah, totally. because she’d been conditioned as a woman. She’s been conditioned to show that she cares above all other things, that she is kind. And once something threatens that, like if you are perceived to be putting money before people in a war torn country, who do you think you are?

You are. Yeah. And so it’s just really interesting. That really brought it home for me. Like, I was really glad she was there because I think I’d have started to question myself, be like, this is, this isn’t a real, but it’s such a strong thing for so many people. [00:04:00] So yeah, it’s a very long winded way of saying that that’s some of the work I do.

Yeah, no, it’s amazing. 

Laura AW: That’s exactly why I wanted to chat to you because I feel like, you know, that there is a, there’s like the mainstream money mindset chat. And then I think what you bring to the table is that understanding that there’s structural Things that also impact that and there’s a lot of other stuff that goes on because something that I’ve always found really difficult about the mainstream money mindset stuff is, you know, well, you’ve just got a money block.

Yeah, it’s just a block. But actually there’s a whole host of other things. That I think have come in, in terms of what feels good to you. And yes, there’s stuff to unpack around that, but often there’s an ethical reason why people don’t want to charge 20, 000 pounds for a coaching package, perhaps. And things like that.

And I feel like a lot of people really struggle with, with things in terms of, you know, where does it kind of, you know, how many blocks do you unblock to charge, you know, 50K for a coaching package or something like that. And actually bringing it, I feel like you bring it [00:05:00] into reality. 

Ray Dodd: Yeah. I think what often happens as well is like people do the money mindset work within the confines of a closed Facebook community or an online course or a book or podcast even, and then they walk out into the real world and a lot of those blocks that they’ve uncovered and got rid of mysteriously show up in other places because they were never there blocks in the first place.

They were patriarchal blocks or white supremacist blocks or capitalist blocks, which is being reiterated by society all the time. And certainly my experience of doing that initial kind of more traditional kind of money mindset, like, don’t get me wrong. It was really helpful, but I really beat myself up on the way I just couldn’t get completely rid of it.

It just kept showing up. And in my work, we don’t really talk about clearing it away. We talk about strategies to be able to navigate it because you’re going to have a conversation with your partner or your friend or, [00:06:00] or a potential client. A lot of it comes through, like you can do all the money clearing stuff you like, but if you’re not able to hold somebody else’s money stuff in a, in a client conversation, like when you tell them your price and they go, Ooh.

Yes. Straight away we go, well, yeah, no, my price is terrible. I shouldn’t have that price. That’s their money stuff showing up. But it’s an interesting thing where we’re blamed for still experiencing the issue when actually, of course, we’re still it’s a bit like, you know, if there’s air pollution outside, it’s like clearing your whole house of all the pollution, going outside and going, Oh, damn it.

What’s wrong with me? I’ve got pollution in me again. So well, because yes, you can clear a space in your bubble. Yeah. But you still exist, you’re going to exist in the outside world. as well. Yeah. So learning to navigate how that impacts not only what you believe about money, but the impact that has on the rest of your business, your selling, your ability to be [00:07:00] visible is huge.

Laura AW: And that’s a really big one. I think the visibility side of it. And I know for a lot of health and life coaches who are in the field of helping others and there’s the healing aspect really, really struggle with money because it feels like, you know, if they’re helping others that how dare they charge for their work.

Have you got any advice for people who struggle with that side of things? 

Ray Dodd: So at first I will confess that I talk about a number of industries that have the most money blocks and wellness is one of them. Yeah. Charity is another, artists and makers are another but anywhere in which people would consider themselves helpers, you know, or carers or healers, all kind of a similar kind of vibe.

So one of the things we talk about in my program Plenty is this concept of kindness at all costs, which is where we conflate, or we actually we separate kindness and money, and we conflate Not being kind, [00:08:00] doing bad things with charging. So how can we do something as good as healing, or as good as caring for and supporting for people, and charge money?

We act like those two things, especially charging well. Like it’s almost like it’s only kind if it’s slightly unkind to us. So we can charge money, but only if we’re charging enough that we are still suffering a little bit. Which, when I say it like that, you kind of go, well that doesn’t make any sense.

but our brains for through because of lots of conditioning. So particularly for again, people, so women, people conditioned as women, but I started to talk a bit as well about the ways in which kindness is often sort of attached more to being feminine, like being a woman is what I mean by that. So even for men who want to be seen as kind, they will start to adopt like [00:09:00] those more, those things that women are often conditioned into.

Yeah, like start to adopt that because they are not wanting to be associated with power hungry masculinity or aggressiveness or anything like that. And we think of like, if you think of charging us a lot of money, it’s very closely linked to aggressiveness, which itself is a masculine thing. You know, so when they don’t want to, I hope that’s making sense.

Swirly concept. Like when we’re, so it’s not just affecting women. It’s affecting people conditioned as women. And by that, I mean, I kind of mean like all women are conditioned as women and also non binary and trans people are conditioned as women. But, but being conditioned as a woman is actually separate to being a woman.

Like, conditioned as women is like, you have to appear this way. Kind, and pretty, and meek, and polite. That’s female conditioning. And bleh, by the way. 

Laura AW: And not wanting to make a lot of money. 

Ray Dodd: Not wanting to make a lot of [00:10:00] money, exactly. Isn’t it, yeah. Because we see it as kindness, we see it as meekness, we see it as politeness.

Yeah. So, can’t remember your original question now, like how does that, what would I say to people? Yes. So, I mean, essentially it’s, it’s recognizing all of that. These are not your opinions. Yeah. These are actually not your feelings. They are societies that has been handed to you and for very valid reasons, you’ve just not checked it at the door.

You’ve not gone, do I think that, is that true? Does that help to create the world I want to create? Or am I accidentally perpetuating these catalyst patriarchal ideas that really don’t serve me all the people I love and want to see flourish. 

Laura AW: Yeah. And that’s the, that’s the main thing, isn’t it? That realization and, and taking that on and actually being the change that you want to see. You know, less cheesy kind of way of looking at it, but I think that’s a really powerful [00:11:00] thing because a lot of people I think feel like. 

They’re going to be judged for being, you know, it’s that whole thing of being a bit of a bitch or, you know, like, you know, or being, like, you see, they’re kind of almost, like, charging a certain amount of money and I think this might be an interesting thing to get into as well as, like, what we think of as too much money and what we think of as enough money and things like that.

And I almost realized, like, I’ve just been saying, you know, charging 20k for a package and 50k for a package, but actually, that’s part of the What I think makes the whole money conversation really interesting because I’ve just kind of revealed, you know, where to me, where those, 

Ray Dodd: you know, and, and 

Laura AW: so, and this is what I find really interesting about this because especially in the course in the coaching industry where there’s no limit really on what people charge in this industry whatsoever.

I find it really like that conversation quite interesting. So if you’ve got any thoughts on that in terms of where do [00:12:00] we. Like, where does this all come in? Because for me, I think there’s something about charging in line with how confident you are in terms of the outcomes that you’re going to get for people and what that’s going to look like.

But what are your thoughts on it? Because yeah, it’s a, it’s a juicy one, I think. 

Ray Dodd: The first thing to say is coaching is not the only industry where there is this, like, how long is a piece of string style of charging? Like, if you think about the art world, there is like, you know, you can, I can go onto eBay and buy an original artwork that’s brilliant.

For 10. Equally, I can, like, there’s, you know, obviously, with the big artists, I’m, they’re charging millions, millions of pounds or dollars or whatever. And there’s a number of other industries as well. I mean, wellness, like fitness. A celebrity personal trainer. versus the trainer you get in your local gym, like your local community gym, wildly different.

So there’s coaching kind of gets the bad rap for what’s actually a very normal practice in a lot of things. And I think [00:13:00] not to go into coaching too much. I know not everyone will be coaches that are listening or watching, but it’s interesting to notice where we start applying rules to things that we don’t apply to other, we don’t fully accept it.

Similarly, like law firms, you can pay like your high street lawyer one thing. And again, like there’s so many industries where it’s like, well, like how long is a piece of string to what you charge? Yes. One of the things that I really encourage my clients to kind of move into believing is that money is neutral.

So we tend to think that For example, there’s all these phrases around like money is the root of all evil, like money, like money creates these like nasty greedy people. Money doesn’t do that. One of the things that I say a lot is one of the ways we know money is neutral is because money can feel Joyful, terrifying, exciting, exhilarating, full of grief.

Anyone who’s received inheritance, for example, will know how heavy with grief money can be. [00:14:00] It can feel terrifying, pressurizing, also like a huge relief. Those are all feelings we put onto money. No object can feel so many different ways unless it’s neutral. As the object, we put that meaning onto the money.

It doesn’t exist in the money that’s on us, but we often depending on our history. So if you’ve grown up without money, money might feel really desperate and scarce, whereas if you’ve grown up with money, it might feel like there’s always more money, but there’s also pressure attached, attached to it. And there’s also like you know, there’s just so many different ways it can be read.

So I really encourage people to see money as neutral. And that means like, so in terms of coaching, I know people who are charging less than 20 an hour for coaching. And I know of somebody who charges a million dollars for six months worth of coaching. Now we might all have flags. Normally when I say that million dollars, people go um, but isn’t it interesting how we don’t have that [00:15:00] same judgment for somebody who’s charging so little for it.

And people go, yes, but That person is encouraging people that person charging a million is encouraging people to spend that kind of money on coaching and they shouldn’t be. Nobody should be spending that much money. But if somebody is making multiple millions in their, in their business. And they want to show up and be supported and really grow their business.

I think spending a billion is a really good investment for them. And maybe when you charge so little amounts, I can think of two much bigger issues with charging smaller amounts than with that bigger amount. One is when we charge low. We change the market value of a product and some people will say yes, but then it’s accessible to people.

Sure. But maybe you can charge that low because you have a partner who makes money or you have money that you rely on from elsewhere, but single mom, single parent, [00:16:00] they can’t charge that low. It’s not possible. It’s not viable for them. And yet, and I don’t think we should be competing on price anyway.

That’s maybe another whole part, but when we charge low, we do compete on price. That’s what it comes down to. And so you’re actually making it harder for that person who needs to charge a certain amount of money to make the money because you’re bringing down the market value. Secondly, People, when they invest in it, won’t take it as seriously.

So depending on your ideal client, and this is really, really important, what we should charge at what the chart, the amount we should charge depends on our ideal client, which I would argue the coach charging a million is absolutely doing the coach charging 20 pounds. Like let’s say even 15 pounds an hour is charging based on their own money insecurities and their own money beliefs and not on.

And there could be exceptions to this. But generally not on what is best for their ideal client. I have [00:17:00] conversations all the time with people where I’m like, they’re like, but I want to be inclusive. I want to be like affordable to people. I don’t want to leave anyone behind. Like, amen. I hear you. Then I say, what stage of life is your client in?

What, what, what sort of transformation are you offering them? And they’re like, well, they just want to really like live their life fully. They want to be like reaching that next level of of I don’t know, their goals, their ambition. Cool. That person’s not in survival mode. That person’s not somebody struggling for money.

Because let me be clear, if they’re struggling for money, they’re not thinking about what their next level is. They’re thinking about getting to a level. Yeah. And I would argue their attention and their energy needs to go to that, not you confusing them with, and how, you know, how much better can you be and how much more can you be when they’re struggling to get to enough, you know, survival.

We don’t really want to actually encourage people to spend that money. [00:18:00] Yeah. Not of them in that place. Yeah. And actually if we charge lower, we’re making ourselves. more accessible to people who maybe shouldn’t be charging that money in the first place. Yeah. And maybe as a suggestion, it would be kinder to charge more.

So that person goes, you know what I could, I can’t stretch myself and that’s better for them. Yeah. Better for them not to stretch, but also it means you’re attracting people who are ready to do the work you offer. Yeah. So when it comes to pricing, it’s like people go, what should I price it out? I want to be inclusive.

And I’m like, well, forget inclusive. Who are your ideal people? Yeah. That’s what you need to think about. And that’s 

Laura AW: a really interesting one. Cause I think so many people do struggle with that feeling that they want to be inclusive. They want to have something for everyone. And I mean, I always remind people that most people are creating a lot of free content as part of their marketing anyway.

Ray Dodd: Exactly. 

Laura AW: So that there’s by default, You know, coaches are, are probably given quite a lot away, you know, quote unquote for free, obviously for marketing, sometimes that’s helpful, I think, in terms of I’ve then been able [00:19:00] to, you know, rationalize that yeah, I think it’s really, really interesting because it is one of those things where, you know, how to price things can be, can be really, really tricky, but go and follow you on Instagram and your podcast if you get stuck with that, because I know that you’ve got resources and things that talk about that.

But in terms of Selling as well, because I know that you talk about how difficult it is to, to show up and sell when there’s the, the money mindset side of things, but I’d love for you to explore and talk a little bit more about the selling side of it, because I think, and I was saying before we hit record that I did one of your selling challenges a couple of years ago, I think it probably was now 

actually Yeah, I got like, time’s gone and done weird there.

Since the pandemic, I don’t know why I’m like that. That was really interesting and that selling doesn’t have to be like this thing that feels horrific. 

Like it does for a lot of my clients. But do you want to chat a little bit about, yeah, about your kind of take on selling? 

Ray Dodd: Well, I think that a lot of people think that selling is convincing people to pay you.[00:20:00] 

And that’s horrible. Yeah, of course no one wants to do it. Like that’s like not a nice thing to have to do at all. And I encourage people to think about it as inviting people to kind of enter your world. So you want to show people who you are. You want to show people, I know I said earlier, you don’t really want to compete on price.

You want to show up, show them who you are so that they want to pay you. And actually, again, you want to be speaking to your ideal client who can afford you. That’s part of that, how you can work out that they’re your right fit person is that they can afford your work. And you want to be showing up so that they go, I don’t care what it costs.

I want to work with them. Yeah. And I’m sure we can all think of times that we have paid more for something. Because we wanted that one, not the cheapest one. It’s when we don’t care, really, about the things so much that we’ll go, well, what’s the cheapest I could spend on this? But when it comes to, like, [00:21:00] your health, all of those things when it comes to like coaching, when it comes to, you know, wellness, you want to be going with someone who’s the right fit for you.

Not someone that just is offering that you can save money on. Yes. Like it’s part of valuing your work. And one of the things I was going to say earlier is it’s funny to me, not funny. It’s kind of sad to me that so many coaches charge so little, but I still not making any money because we complain.

about coaches and personal trainers and wellness people like charging too much. But the people that you can get, I guarantee you, you can get excellent coaching, excellent personal training, excellent like advice on your health and support in your health for very little money. But we don’t trust the people that charge too little.

We go, hmm, why are they charging so little though? And so those are generally the people struggling. Really the reason they’re charging so little is their money stuff. It’s not about their skills. [00:22:00] It’s their confidence, their money stories, all of that stuff, but we judge their skills based on their price.

And so when we sell, we want to be showing people who we are. We want to be showing people why you would work with me. Here are my thoughts and opinions. Here are the things that make me different to other people. And yeah, not everyone’s gonna like it. But trust me, not everyone likes you already. 

Laura AW: Yeah. I asked you through a lot of people, but yeah.

I mean, one of the things I’m often talking about in my work. So I talk a lot about Content marketing that’s not on social media and I’m often talking about how are we creating content where people do get to connect with us as people, because I think that is such an important part of it that, you know, it’s not like someone’s going out shopping for a new car when they’re going out shopping for a coach, they’re not comparing it You know windscreen wipers and leather seats or whatever, you know, it’s it’s a it’s a much more emotional connection It’s because they there’s something about you that they resonate with and [00:23:00] that’s the that tends to be the driving force and you’re right that can it makes that comparison with money irrelevant 

Ray Dodd: Yes.

Yeah. You will want to, like, you’re going to have to spend time with this person. You’re going to have to sit in a room or the end of a zoom call and you want to know what’s going to happen. So people say to me, like, should I swear in my content? And I’m always like, do you swear as a person? If someone gets on a call with you, are you going to be swearing?

Well, then I would argue the ethical thing to do, actually. Let them know that before you even get in so that they don’t go, oh my goodness, this potty mouse human, I dunno what to do with myself. And you end up having a clash like show up as you Mm-Hmm, . The knock on effect of that is they’re going to want to pay.

Like I would pay someone more that swears more because I’d feel more connected to them. I wouldn’t be going, oh my God, they say, fuck. So, absolutely yes, , I’m gonna pay them all. But the knock on effect would be, I know I can be myself with that person. I know I can trust that person. What do they charge?

Okay. And I think [00:24:00] people tend to go, Oh, but you know, people to manage it. Like, I have just signed up with somebody who just told me their price and then I just went and made the money. Yeah. I want to work with them. How do I make that money? So I went and made the money so that I could pay them. Yeah. I didn’t go.

Could you just charge a bit less actually? Because I don’t have that money right now. I was like, right, cool. I want to work with them. What am I going to do? And I stalked them for months beforehand, like not like online, not, but I was really like consuming everything, all of their content. Now I was really solid knowing what they, the content they put out told me they would be a good fit for me.

And so, and that’s part of your selling is really selling is showing people who you are and inviting them further into your world by exchanging money with you. It’s not pressurizing people. It’s not convincing people. I kind of ban the word convince from my world. Because you don’t want to convince people.

Actually, it’s a waste of your [00:25:00] time to convince people. You just are inviting people. Like if you, if you have to convince somebody to come round to your house for dinner, like how awkward is that? You invite someone, right? And if they, you know, your good enough friends is a good fit, they’ll be like, yeah, sure.

But if you’re like, please come over, it’ll be weird. Like if you have to convince them, like, I mean, I can tell you now don’t do that. It’s going to be the most awkward experience of their life. If not yours, we don’t do that with friendships. We don’t try and convince people to be our friends. It’s much more of an invitation.

And also a there’s a robustness to ourselves in that moment and our self worth. Like a knowledge that we are okay regardless, you know, my really good friends, if I invite them over for dinner and they say, Oh no, I can’t, I’ve got this going on. I don’t go into a spin of like, Oh God, Oh no, I don’t think they like me because there’s a solidness there of that relationship.

And we just want to create that with our clients. 

Laura AW: It’s such a different energy to be in. I think when you are coming from that place of [00:26:00] that invitation to people to. Like to like, like you say, kind of come further into your world and knowing that you’re okay, whatever the response is. And I think that does come from that feeling of self worth and not feeling like, like you need the sales to validate yourself.

I suppose there’s that part of it as well. 

Ray Dodd: You should never need the sale more than they need your service. And that’s what happens. I always use the example of you know, people selling charity on the street or it used to be Sky TV a lot that you’d see them and you walk past and you don’t want to catch their eye.

And that’s what a lot of us are doing. We’re trying to catch the eye of someone who doesn’t want our service because, because we’re acting like we’re on commission. It’s like the difference when you walk into a shop and they come like, can I help you with anything? You’re like, Oh God, you’re on commission.

Yes. I am such an introvert. I’m like, Oh my God, please leave me alone. What’s happening? I’ll probably just be like, I’m just gonna look and leave really fast. Like you want to be someone where people come to us because they’ve looked around the shop. They like what they’re seeing and they would like some [00:27:00] help with something, or they just want to buy it because it’s just been shown to them rather than chasing someone down the street where that energy exchange is just off because we need them more than they need us.

And that’s. 

Laura AW: And that’s when sales feels icky because we’ve all had like, I mean, where I live, I get multiple times I get people knocking on my front door trying to sell us shit that I don’t need. It drives us up the wall. And and it’s that, I think that’s what puts people off because they feel like that’s what they’re going to be doing.

Exactly. Just as you said, when you, you know, switch things around and really like change your energy around. It makes such a big difference. 

Ray Dodd: And it’s really important to say like, when people don’t want to sell like that, you’re right, you’re right. There’s like, your gut is telling you, this is icky and you are not wrong about that.

It is icky. It’s just not the only way you can sell. And people tend to be very black and white. So they’re like opt out of making money, opt out of selling because they only see this problematic way of doing it. But we really need to reimagine those things. things. And in an increase and world increasingly, [00:28:00] like where AI is so much more prevalent, you will stick out so well selling like a human being actually selling imperfectly, showing yourself to be a real tangible human who makes mistakes is not bad.

It’s gonna, people don’t connect with AI the way they connect with actual humans. Cause we spot. That it’s something’s a bit off. Yeah. And so we have this amazing opportunity to be less perfect than we’ve ever been able to be. So you get to do that in your selling and, and therefore in your money making too, which to me is so exciting.

Laura AW: Yeah. And to, and to be fair, that’s just a fantastic kind of like mindset tip in itself, because again, a lot of the, again, the people who I work with really struggle with perfectionism, but actually when you really flip that around and see the fact that. Being a little bit imperfect is actually it’s often it’s those things that make people actually connect with you when you’re not this kind of, you know, vision of perfection that you think in your head that you have to be a successful coach.

I think it’s often those like vulnerabilities that we find that actually when we [00:29:00] don’t hide them and share them that people connect with. 

Ray Dodd: Yes, absolutely. I actually recently have been using this example because I I made some pots. My friend is a ceramicist and we made some pots and I made this little dish and I was putting feet on it, like actual feet.

Don’t ask why I just had an idea. And I was trying, I was like, Oh, I want to connect these on Rosa. And she was like, yeah, just score. One side and the other side, because when they’re smooth, they just fall off. But when you make them less perfect, they connect to each other really, really well. And I’ve been using that when I talk about selling, say we think too smooth surfaces is the way to like present ourselves.

So like we asked to be perfect. Our clients have to be perfect, but actually in, if you were making something with clay, that would mean that. That they would, the thing would break. So actually like those imperfections are often what connects human beings the best, just like it did with that pot. And I love that example.

Yeah, that’s fantastic. Like, yeah, like I look at that pot every day now and I’m like, I get it. I [00:30:00] get it. Thanks for the lesson. But yeah, it’s a really interesting thing. But we have been taught, talked about the patriarchy and all of that and white supremacy and capitalism especially, we’ve been taught that perfectionism is A, achievable, which it isn’t.

No one’s made money perfectly, ever. They’ve just pretended that they have. And B, like, we, we’ve been taught to, to pretend we do it, and we’ve been taught that that’s the only way. And it’s not. It’s not. It can’t happen for starters. And B, even if it could happen, it doesn’t need to. And we’ve just got lots of exhausted entrepreneurs around, just trying to do it.

And they can’t, because you can’t, but you don’t need to. 

Laura AW: And that’s, I think that’s a nice way to to kind of wrap up. I always ask one last question because a lot of the, a lot of the conversations that I have with. People in my world is around really connection with our version of success and I think this comes into the money conversation because again I think there’s a lot of and again interesting because I’m starting to second guess myself now But [00:31:00] there’s a lot of obviously in the entrepreneurial space.

There’s a lot of success is held on the six or seven figure business Yeah, and a lot in our conversations that I have in my community is around how we can actually connect with what our version of success looks like, rather than thinking we have to fit or tick a box to be a successful coach or successful or successful entrepreneur.

But what does your version of success look like for you, Rae? 

Ray Dodd: I think my version of success looks like being the most me in my business. So it’s really about feeling like I’m, I talk about taking up space a lot, like feeling like I’m taking up my space and how that looks for me. So it’s less about what the numbers look like and more about how it feels to me and how much I feel like I’m expressing myself in a way that really communicates who I am.

But also I’m having the impact that is possible for myself when I’m doing that. That’s my version of success. I think for me, it’s the [00:32:00] result of that will be and is a certain amount of money, but it’s not always for everybody. Like, the idea that success is six or seven figures is just such bullshit. But, like I said, money is neutral.

So if it is that, That’s also fine. It’s not that neither one is wrong, it just looks different ways for different people. For some people, the absolute tip of them being in their space is 30k and that’s fine. Like, not even just fine, like that’s amazing. 

Laura AW: Yeah, I think you used the phrase as well, like life changing amounts of money before, which really stuck with me, which I thought was amazing because that’s a nice way to, to get out of, like, it has to be, you know, ear figure.

Yes. But it’s your figure. It’s like your figure. 

Ray Dodd: Exactly. Like what, what allows you one of the, the exercises we do in my program Plenty is I get people to do a dream budget, which is just like, what’s the life you want to live? How much money would that involve? And that looks so wildly different for different people.

For some people that would be like, I want to live in an [00:33:00] isolated house in Wales, but don’t really see other humans. But I bulk buy loads of stuff because that feels really good to me. And someone else is going to be like, I want to live in New York in this amazing apartment and I go shopping in like all the designer places.

And society tells us that one of those existences is better than the other. But it’s not. It’s not. It’s about like, you know, if those people swapped existences and the person who wanted to live in the amazing place was living in Wales and the person in Wales was living in New York, that would be a failure for both of them.

So it’s really about like, who are you? What do you want? What money allows you to live the life you want and have the impact you want? That’s my goal. Yeah, 

Laura AW: yeah, that is that is definitely mine as well, that, that whole owning your own version of success I think is really important, but thank you so much for being on the show, that’s been a really interesting conversation, I’ve got loads of fireworks going off in my brain now about [00:34:00] a few different things, I’ll be honest, 

Which is almost the benefit of me interviewing fantastic people on here, but if people want to find out more about you, where can they find you, and I will put all the links and everything in the description as well.

Ray Dodd: The best place to pop is either to my website, which is ray. co. uk r a y d o double d or to my Instagram where you can also find all the links for stuff. I have a couple of freebies that people can sign up to. Oh, and I have a podcast called Real You Real Money, which has over a hundred episodes now.

So if you want a deep dive into my brain and my guests brains, that’s a really good place to go as well. 

Laura AW: Fabulous. Oh, thank you so much. That’s been awesome. 

Ray Dodd: so much. There we go. 



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