Quitting Humble Mumbling and Owning Your Expertise with Laura Robinson of Worditude


Quitting Humble Mumbling and Owning Your Expertise with Laura Robinson of Worditude


This week on The Wholehearted Business Show I’m chatting with the wonderful Laura Robinson of Worditude.

Laura is an online marketing mentor and experienced digital copywriter. Over the last 10 years, she has helped hundreds of business owners create and sell 1-1 services, courses, memberships, and group programs. She’s taught thousands of people around the world, through the copywriting training she created for international business organisations including Female Entrepreneur Association, Enterprise Nation, and Membership Academy.

She is also the author of the Comfy Business Playbook, and the creator of the Comfy Business Newsletter for people who want a business that flexes around their other life challenges, priorities, and adventures.

She champions a Suit Yourself First approach to marketing, where decisions are based on what the business owner wants, rather than guessing the preferences of a hypothetical ideal client.

I’ve known Laura online for a few years now and this was the first time we’ve been able to chat. I know you’re going to love this conversation!

Tune in to learn:

  • What ‘Humble Mumbling’ is and why it affects a lot of coaches
  • How to start owning your expertise as a coach
  • Tips for writing better copy
  • How to overcome the fear of over promising
  • Ideas for handling online hecklers

Laura’s links:

Watch this episode on YouTube and subscribe to my channel here


Listen to this episode on The Wholehearted Business Show Podcast: Listen on Apple Podcasts / Listen on Spotify




[00:00:00] Hi there, welcome to the Whole Hearted Business Show. This week I’m talking to Laura from Worditude. She’s a marketing mentor that helps people sell their expertise and I really wanted to chat to Laura because a lot of what she talks about in her business is really similar to the whole approach that I have and I think you guys will absolutely love the pearls of wisdom that she’s got to share with us today.

Let’s dive in. 

Laura AW: hi Laura, it’s lovely to have you on the show. I was really excited to have you on because I feel like a lot of what you talk about in your work is very similar in terms of like the outlook that we have on business but I’d love for you just to start off by 

Laura R: telling people what it is that you do.

Hi, I am also called Laura. I feel like there’s quite a lot of us on the online space. Seems like a disproportionate number of people. I’m a copywriter by training and I help people feel really confident and comfortable around selling and marketing and copywriting for people who sell their [00:01:00] expertise online, either as like coaches, one to one services, courses, memberships, programs, that kind of thing.

Laura AW: Yeah, amazing. Yeah, and I know that you also talk about, there’s a few key things that I’ve picked up in your work around, mainly the comfy business, because I talk about a cozy business, and I think we’re very much on the same page, but when you talk in your work about kind of aiming to have a comfy business, what does that mean from your perspective?

Laura R: my newsletter is called the comfy business newsletter, and I have a small book called the comfy business playbook. And that came about because I, like, I had to set up my business, it was I was, I feel like I was forced into it, I didn’t choose to leave my job as like a plan. My second child was born and he had additional medical needs and that was just like not going to work with having a job, but we still needed an income.

I’m married, but we couldn’t manage on one income. And so my like whole online career has been like just piecing together. I’ve got this skill who will pay for it and how can I do this? [00:02:00] And like just Bolting it together in a way that’s going to work for my life. And like I started that 15 years ago, I left my job.

So I’ve had my business, all kinds of different shapes, selling different things in different ways, working different hours in different patterns to match what my life looks like. And the most recent version of that was I took both my kids out of school when they were high school age and I homeschooled them.

They’re 16 and 18 now. So that’s all. Like I’m done with that phase and now we’re into a new phase and all the time I’ve, I’ve focused on, I’ve tried to, I definitely lose my way sometimes, but try to focus on what is going to give us the money we need to have a comfortable life. And it’s a comfortable, flexible working arrangement for me that works with I live with chronic migraine and another chronic pain condition.

So I need to be very flexible about that. I’ve also started volunteering as a wildlife rescuer. So There’s just like a whole bunch of life stuff going on and it’s very dynamic. It changes a lot as the boys get older and as my life changes. And so a comfortable business for me is one that is [00:03:00] it fits around my life.

Like the life come, all those life things come first and there is a requirement to make a certain amount of money. And I take the skills and resources and networks that I have, and I use that to make money in a way that fits around everything else I’ve got going on. 

Laura AW: Yeah, I think that sounds amazing. And yeah, I mean, I talk a lot in my work about like a cozy business.

I think it’s a really similar viewpoint in terms of, I don’t think your business has to be a six figure or seven figure online business. Like what we’re kind of shown is like the epitome of success online to actually have a business meet your needs. 

Laura R: Like some people just want to go to work and have a job and some people want to be the CEO.

That’s great. And that, and the same thing applies when you have a business. Not everyone who wants to be self employed is doing that because they want to be able to sell a business that’s worth multiple millions at some point in the future. Some of us are just like, well, I just need enough money to get by in a way that suits me.

And I don’t feel like We’re celebrated or encouraged or validated enough. And that’s, that’s [00:04:00] the whole point of my newsletter is just to say like, hi, we’re here. We exist. There’s thousands of us running our business in this way, and it’s completely valid way to run your business. And it’s a completely valid ambition to have.

Yeah, oh 

Laura AW: absolutely, because I think you’re absolutely right, there’s a, a lot of people that, that kind of end up working with me or are attracted to what I do is because there is people here who’ve got no desire whatsoever to have a business at that, at that kind of, well I say level, but it’s just, it looks like that, because it does come with certain things attached, I think, for most people to be, to be like making that amount of money.

So it’s good, it’s always nice to see someone else who’s also got a message like that, because I feel like we’re, you know, in amongst the flashy, shiny, you know, like I say, six, seven figure coaches. We’re, it feels like we’re quite a rare breed, so it’s nice. 

Laura R: It’s nice to cling on to each other. We can make this be a critical mass if we like stick together you Yeah, oh definitely.

And something I was 

Laura AW: reading [00:05:00] on your website that I thought was really interesting, which I feel kind of ties into what you were just saying there about what a comfy business is, which was around rather than kind of designing like your business and perhaps your offers around like a hypothetical ideal client, that you’re kind You know, that you’re the driver and what you need and what you want to share and that side of it is more, you know, that that comes first, is that something that you can explain a little bit more for us?

Because I think that’s a really interesting, especially in the world where everyone’s talking about, you know, ideal client avatars and, you know, and having these offers that are very targeted to certain problems and things like that. I think it’s a nice alternative way to look at things. 

Laura R: So a lot of the things that we get taught about how to do marketing has been borrowed from, like, teachings that were not ever meant for us.

So I, my background, I did a business degree I finished that was like 2001. So you can imagine how little of that is now relevant to the world I find myself in. [00:06:00] But the part that I found really interesting was The idea of packaging up theories, like, like the good old Boston matrix and all those old like branded theories and how management consulting companies would come up with an idea and they will package it up and it would get distilled in a book to sell their consulting services.

And like way before this online world works, that was the model they were using. And then they, they kind of trickled down to us and the marketing theories were sound. This idea of like researching an ideal customer and looking into their demographics and who is it and what do they want and what does their day look like, but there’s, there’s value.

Reasons to do that, but usually that’s the massive companies who are targeting thousands or millions of people and have enormous amounts of resources to be able to do that research so that the volume of research they’re looking at is statistically valid. If you can’t do that, then. It’s questionable how much value your customer research is going to have.

And also what’s the point if you did all this research and it told you that your ideal customer is on TikTok 12 [00:07:00] hours a day and really responds to dancing videos and that fills you with horror. Yeah. You’re not like, don’t do it. You’re not going to be able to make yourself do that just because that’s what the best way to get in front of your ideal client.

You would be better off thinking, okay, well, actually what I really enjoy doing is sharing behind the scenes videos from my life. These are the people that really enjoy that content. Okay. What can I sell to them? Like that feels like a much more. realistic, sustainable, easeful way of doing your marketing.

And so there isn’t a degree of like you do need to listen in to find out what people want. And so that you’re, it’s like an alignment of this is what I can do and I offer, and this is what I enjoy. And this is the gap I can see in the people who need that. And we sort of, you know, it’s a little bit of wiggling back and forth until those things line up.

But I don’t agree with this idea of designing what you do and how you do it for somebody else, because it’s your business. You’re the boss, you get to choose what you do. 

Laura AW: Yeah, and it’s a good reminder because I think often, again, when a lot of people get into coaching businesses, it feels like there’s a, there’s a right [00:08:00] way to do it.

And then by default, there’s a wrong way to do it. But actually there’s not, that’s not the case at all. People can, you know, you can, it is your business. You’re the boss, which 

Laura R: is it, which is the whole thing. There’s a way to do things. Great. Like someone wants to share. This is, this is the way I do things.

So this is the way I think things should be done. Okay, great. Don’t take that at face value. What you, it’s like a starting point for you to feel what’s my reaction to that, which parts of that do I go, Oh, absolutely not. I’m never going to do that. Or that sounds like fun. Or I can see why that works. Like it’s always just a beginning point to explore what you want for yourself, not an instruction manual that you pick up and follow and hope for the best of the other side and stick to it.

Even if every part of you is screaming, this isn’t fun. I don’t want to be doing it. Yeah. 

Laura AW: Yeah, because it kind of negates the whole, I think a lot of people get into, certainly in the coaching industry and health and life coaches is because they want to do something that they enjoy, that they feel it’s having an impact and it’s kind of makes it pointless, doesn’t it, when you actually hate what it is that you’re doing because you think it’s the right way to do it.

And the good news is there’s lots of different ways to run a business. And I think, again, I feel like you’re [00:09:00] in the Z Goddard’s world as well, aren’t you, in terms of like having multiple offers and, you know, Things like that. And I think it just goes to show there’s so many different ways to put a business together.

And just like what you were saying there in terms of bold and different. Things in as you’ve kind of grown, I think that’s a really interesting perspective as well when, you know, again, some of the messaging is 

Laura R: just to have one thing. Oh, I’ve definitely not been one thing. It’s been, and I love it. I get feedback like you’re so experimental.

I love the way that you try lots of different things. I think, oh, wow, you think there’s a plan back here. It’s just like, well, this would be fun. Like let’s try this for 12 weeks and see what happens. Or you know, I’ve got a six week window where it looks like it would be fun to do this. So let’s just try it and see what happens because I either I’ll love it and I’ll get great results and I’ll keep doing it, or it doesn’t.

And I’ve learned something. And then in the future, when other people ask me, Hey, I saw that you tried this thing. What do you think? I’ll have something of value to share with them. So I feel like I can’t lose if I. I mean, I naturally find that fun, like, [00:10:00] experimenting and not sticking to one thing. But yeah, there’s not like some grand master plan in the background that’s driving all of this.

It’s very much like kind of impulsive. Oh, that looks like fun to do. And it’s, 

Laura AW: I think it’s a good reminder that that’s okay and that you can try things out and that nothing’s, because I mean, I’ve been running my business not quite as long as you. I think mine’s been about 12 or 13 years. And I, like, I’ve tried so many different, at one point I had an in print magazine, at one point, and things like that, so.

And it, you know, it didn’t work out long term, but it was definitely an experience and something I’m still proud of, so. It does just go to show that you can, you know, your business can be all sorts of different things, which I think does come with a bit of confidence in trying things out, which, leads me nicely on to a concept that I came across on your website called, I’m gonna have to just check, I know it’s 

Laura R: humble, humble bumbling.

Humble mumbling. Humble mumbling, yeah. So 

Laura AW: tell me a little bit about this because I think this is very relevant to a lot 

Laura R: of health and life coaches who might struggle with this but I’ll let you explain it more. I have to say in my experience I’ve worked with so [00:11:00] many different industries, different niches, health, like health coaches especially, they really struggle with this.

So humble mumbling is when you. Like send an email or a social media post and it’s like, yes, and I might have this thing and it possibly could, maybe, maybe it might help you. It’s quite good. Some people have tried it and you could give me some money, but only if you really, really want to. And I’ve got some training in this and that’s it.

And you’re like, what, what was like, what is the thing? How is it going to help me? It’s, It’s baffling now when I look at it, why do we do this to ourselves when our entire like business depends on us being able to pitch our value? But it’s it’s like, it’s so commonplace, which is why I wrote a whole blog post about it because it happens all the time.

And so what is when people humble mumble, they don’t proudly own like the expertise, the qualifications, the experience that they’ve got, like that’s the biggest thing I see. And I think partly that comes from. And they assume that everybody has that or they assume that we don’t care whether they have that or not and like we really care like if you’ve got this [00:12:00] experience, this depth of experience, these qualifications, we want to know about it.

It’s very reassuring. And I think the other reason is maybe we We’re scared to disappoint people, but we don’t want to overpromise and say, I’m so amazing. I can do all of these things. And then, and maybe that not be true. But I think I’ve put this in the blog post. I liken it to like, if you went into a hairdressers and your brand new hairdresser has never been there before, you’re trusting them with your hair.

And you sat in the chair and they said, Oh, I think I could probably do this. I’ve been doing it a while. Like, let’s give this a shot. Shall we? You would be absolutely terrified and you would not want to give them your money. If you walked in and their wall was covered in certificates and thank you cards and photographs from happy clients.

And they started telling you about the last person they had in the chair and how like they’ve been coming to them for 15 years because they love them. Then you’re, you’re going to have such a better experience. It’s not just that it makes it easier for you to buy, but you’re going to enjoy the experience so much more because you feel like you’re in trusted hands.

So it’s beyond just selling your services. You [00:13:00] kind of owe it to those clients to give them the best experience they can possibly have. And part of that is quit the humble mumbling and own what you’re capable of, what you’re bringing to the party and what you can do for them. Yeah. Yeah. 

Laura AW: Oh, absolutely.

And I think when you touched on over promising there, cause that is definitely something that is. that comes up for a lot of health and life coaches is this fear of over promising. And I think what it does is that they stop selling because they get really afraid that they can’t, you know, basically meet what it is that they’re saying.

Have you got any kind of ideas around that? Because obviously I know that some of what you do is copywriting as well and how we communicate what it is that we can help people with. If we’re worried about over promising, kind of, is there anything helpful around that 

Laura R: that you can share? Yes, definitely. So I’m a pen and paper kind of person, and so almost whenever anyone’s stuck with anything, it usually comes back to, like, get a pen and paper, write these things down.

I would encourage you to write, or separate post it notes, this can work quite well with separate post it notes, write down all of the promises you can think of, [00:14:00] no matter how outlandish or ridiculous they are. So even if you think, I would never say that, or I’ve seen other people saying that, and that feels, like, immoral to me, there’s no way I could do it.

You have to get it out of your system because otherwise these things, they kind of form like a dam in your mind and so even the good promises can’t get out because you’re going, no, no, I can’t say anything. I couldn’t possibly say that. So you just allow yourself to say them in the privacy of like your own space, your own notebook, get it all out.

And then I’m also a massive fan of color coding. So if you’ve done it in a notebook, you would have maybe three colors, one for, I am never, ever going to like, there’s just no way I’d never say that another color for, I feel really like this is good. I feel confident I can say that. And then there’s going to be a bunch in the middle where you’re like.

I’m not really sure. Or if you’ve done it as a post it note, you sort them into the three piles. Like, great. So now you’ve got a bunch you can just throw away. I’m never going to say that. That’s fine. I feel really good about myself that I’m never going to make those promises. And I feel really good about myself that I could just use these ones that I feel confident in.

And then it’s up to you if you want to do anything with the ones in the middle pile. I think [00:15:00] I find over time, you just tend to get, like, the more you look at them, you’ll just start to feel like, actually, that’s not a maybe. I think that’s true. I can say that. Or you’ll have some feedback or experience with the client and it moves something from the maybe part to the yes part.

But if you wanted to, there’s probably a whole bunch of journaling exercises you can do to help you get through each one of those maybes, but making things like anything you can do like that to get it out of your head. It’s a problem that feels like it’s a problem. This is a mindset problem. This is a thinking problem.

It’s inside of me. Anything you can do to get that outside of you and in some kind of physical form that you can sift and sort and play around with, with your hands will help create some movement and momentum around that. Yeah, that’s 

Laura AW: really, really good advice. Yeah. And it is a massive struggle. I think that people have, because the, I think there’s a lot of fear, I suppose.

And, and actually I think this kind of seeps into them own and their expertise as well, and again, for health and life coaches and particularly health coaches, probably around, you know, 

Laura R: the fear of being kind of, 

Laura AW: especially on, on social media, I think a lot of health coaches have this fear of someone’s going to like [00:16:00] call them out, you know, and 

Laura R: kind of say, well, you’re wrong about this, or this is terrible, or, you know, 

Laura AW: things like that.

Is that something that you’ve got any kind of advice around when it comes to that kind of owning your expertise? And basically someone disagreeing with you, I think is, is the, It’s the fear 

Laura R: that a lot of people have. It’s going to happen eventually, and that someone’s going to disagree with you, and, like, I think often that’s I think about when it’s happened to me, because it definitely has.

Sometimes, sometimes they’ve had a really valid thing, but they’ve said it in a really nasty way. Yeah. If I think about the most, I had a pretty appalling email not long ago after something I’d given away something and the response was like so horrible. And I was like, well, actually what you’ve said in there, there’s a nugget of truth in there about how this worked and I could definitely do better next time, but the way you said it is just not so bad.

So I think they’re, they’re separating that out as well. Is there truth in what they’ve said and are you hurting because of the way they’ve delivered it? Sometimes there isn’t, you know, [00:17:00] it’s just their perspective and it gives me a chance to, you know, Okay. Would you, is there any truth in what you’re saying or is, is what you’re saying valid?

And I investigate my reasons for having this position or having this opinion and it just makes me more strongly like, no, I’m, I’m really happy with my position. So I think it’s fine. Like people, it’s always an opportunity. That’s kind of what I’m saying. Like it’s always an opportunity. It’s an opportunity for you to draw boundaries around how you will allow someone to communicate with you.

And if they’ve crossed a line, it’s an opportunity for you to see if there’s a nugget of truth in what they’re saying. It’s an opportunity for you to reconsider your perspective and look at the reasons why you thought that and back it up, quite often it’s an opportunity for me to learn something new.

And, you know, usually there’s something in there where I can say, actually, I’m going to take this. Yes, I’m going to take that. Like even if you’ve delivered it in the most appalling way, there’s this little bit and I’m going to do something with that. But while we’re on the topic, I mean, this is kind of related.

I was thinking about it when you were asking the question. I think another thing that holds people back is, is this, and this happens to me too. An element of it’s not fair because I see [00:18:00] people make promises like copywriters, people who sell copywriting courses, and I see how they sell that in their Facebook ads.

And it makes me feel ill. Like, I’m like, this is not fair. You’re going to take that much money from someone on that promise. And I know you can’t do that. And I used to have a background in SEO as well. And that was a similar space where I couldn’t sell what I was doing or I felt like at the time I couldn’t sell what I was doing because I wouldn’t make the promises that I saw other people make.

And I knew that they couldn’t back those promises up because like I had the industry knowledge to know it wasn’t possible. And like, I just had to get over it by having a big old pity party of like, it’s just not fair. Those people are making money and they will make more money than me because they’re prepared to make those kind of promises.

Yeah. Am I prepared to go where they are and do those things? No, because I, I, I would feel uncomfortable after somebody had bought, I would feel uncomfortable the whole time I was working with them, I feel uncomfortable every time I spend that money, like, I just can’t be that person. And 

Laura AW: it’s okay, because I think often, like, I used to feel like that, and I used to think, you know, is it, is it like a mindset [00:19:00] block?

You know, that was always a big thing, wasn’t it, in business, like, oh, well, you’re just blocked, or you’re just like, or whatever, but, It’s just that you’ve got moral. I think that’s the bottom line, isn’t it? That you’re not an arsehole. You’re not one of the ones to bit people off. But I think that’s such an important point because, yeah, it’s, it can get frustrating when you see other people who are, who are, you know, are making false promises and who are massively over agonized and And, and, yeah.

And it, and it might be that, ’cause I think that’s something I’ve certainly accepted for me is that I’m not prepared to, and, and I see other coaches doing this, like talk about helping people get to a certain income level when they haven’t done that themselves and they’ve got no evidence that they can do that themselves.

Laura R: Well the way that they got there was teaching other people how to get there. They’re like, no, this is not, this is not a thing. That’s just a pyramid scheme. . 

Laura AW: Yeah. That’s not actually actual valuable 

Laura R: coaching. That’s there. Yeah. 

Laura AW: Yeah. So it’s, it’s a, it is a really interesting thing. And I think sometimes I think you’re right.

It’s about coming to terms with the fact that that’s the way that they do it, but this is the way [00:20:00] that you want to do it for a good reason. And the same with like the, you know, the negative potential negative feedback when you do own your expertise, I think part of it is just part of being running a business, isn’t it?

That people are going to, you know, not everyone sees things the same way as you, 

Laura R: or has the same lived experience. Can I share a seal related story or like analogy that I always manage to like squeeze in the seal rescue somehow even if I don’t mean to. But this has helped me so much. I volunteer as a wildlife rescuer like almost exclusively I go and rescue bait like seal pups that they’re too young to make it on their own and whatever you know things have gone wrong they’re on the beach they need lifting and then taking to a rescue center.

And so and I’m often doing that like in the public gaze because, you know, word gets out, I really live in a very small town, word gets out that there’s a seal pup on the beach and everyone wants to come and see. And the first few times I did it, I never like, almost everybody is lovely and encouraging and supportive.

I was like, there’s always one. [00:21:00] Like there’s always one bastard, like there’s always one horrible person. How is this possible? And I chatted to like the other volunteers that did this like, yeah, yeah, no, that’s, that’s it. There’s always going to be one. And I just literally, I couldn’t believe, it was like for free, I am going out in the freezing cold often, or like the wind, If it’s a sunny day, it’s a great rescue, but it’s not usually like that.

And I’m doing this for free. And this thing, like it’s cute, but it wants to bite me and they stink. And it’s going to take a really long time to like wash everything off afterwards. And, but I want to do it and everyone’s being lovely, but there’s always this one person who’s telling me like, I’m doing it wrong.

You should have done it quicker. I don’t, you know, are you’re hurting? And once I realized that it doesn’t matter if what you’re doing is rescuing a baby seal pup for its greater good, there’s still always going to be one heckler telling you that you’re doing it wrong. This, it has been so liberating. I started doing this, it was 18 months ago.

And once I realized that after the first few rescues, it was, It’s just so liberating and also applied to everything because this idea like there’s always going [00:22:00] to be one heckler and then when the heckler doesn’t turn up you’re like wow that was amazing nobody told me i was doing it wrong this time yeah yeah oh that’s 

Laura AW: such i mean also how amazing is that you volunteer to do that that sounds incredible but what a good analogy yeah the the likely is always going to be one person who’s going to be a dickhead but it’s like you kind of, once you accept it and just let them, let them 

Laura R: crack it off, get on with it.

Yeah. Because I can’t like, it’s not going to help the seal if I stop what I’m doing. They’re not 

Laura AW: there volunteering and helping the seal themselves. And I often think that when people are critical or when they’re trying to disagree for the point of disagreeing, usually that’s because they’re not there and in their businesses, they’re not there.

you know, doing their thing. They’re sitting there criticizing you and I think that is enough about them. 

Laura R: You know, it’s a waste. It’s always about them. I mean, even the person, the last, I mean, it was a few months ago, but the last email was like, Whoa, that’s not how you speak to [00:23:00] another human. And that’s definitely not how you speak to me.

Yeah. Then my next reaction is, I don’t know what’s going on in your life that makes you think that that’s okay, but I’m really glad it’s not happening to me because I can’t imagine getting into that state of like stress or emotional distress where I communicate with others like that. Although I can think of times when I have been really stressed and I’ve I’ve snapped and I’ve not.

you know, not presenting myself in the way that I’d want to. So yeah, it’s always, it’s always goes back to whatever’s going on with them. And you’re just having to be the, the vessel, vessel of the day. Yeah. 

Laura AW: And again, I think that is such a helpful thing to remember because it’s, it’s almost always about them and not about you.

And I think when you get triggered, a bit like what you were saying, I think when you get triggered, sometimes there is, maybe there is like a nugget of truth, or maybe it’s pressing on like a, you know, something that you are a bit concerned about and like when I was a health coach and I talked a lot about self care and I could notice when I was triggered because people would say well self care is like a stupid thing like you shouldn’t be calling it self care, you know, and people and I would and it would get really [00:24:00] triggering because it was the things that I was kind of worried about that I wasn’t doing it right or I wasn’t, you know, communicating things in the right way but once you let go of that then you’re free to just be yourself.

When your business and help the people who want to be there to be supported. 

Laura R: They’re only showing up like this is like next level get inside my own head, head stuff. But I know that those people are only showing up because there’s already a little nugget of doubt in me anyway. And they’ve come to like really poke on that bit.

That’s already a bit squishy. And then I can go, okay, thanks for pointing out that that bit was a bit squishy. That’s something I can work on 

Laura AW: now. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it’s a good indicator for something that you can, yeah, kind of think more about and look at why it is so, you know, why it hits you there so 

Laura R: much.

Because that’s so raw. 

Laura AW: But yeah, just to kind of finish off, I’d love just to chat a little bit about more of the copywriting side of things, because I feel like a lot of health and life coaches really, I mean, first of all, struggle with Writing copy, but really struggle with putting the per their personalities in into it basically.

And I feel like there’s a few different reasons for that. I think sometimes when people are starting businesses [00:25:00] anyway, we have like a tone of voice that we used to create and like writing things in that is corporate or is more dictated by the industry that we’re in. But also I think people just really struggle to know.

How to say things to make them sound interesting and compelling and actually have their personality in if you’ve got any quick tips that coaches can take away. First 

Laura R: of all, I’ve got a lot of reassurance. So my last job, the one that I walked out on was as a communications role for the IT department.

of an insurance company. Like you cannot imagine, like nothing, there’s not a shade of beige that would even come close to matching how I was allowed to write. And I would like write the communication and someone would come along and just, just, I don’t know how they would just blur it all and make it meaningless and goldie goof.

And it was just soul destroying. And there was definitely no personality in it. And then I did like a whole bunch of other stuff, writing my own blogs, but then I also did more freelancing where I was writing [00:26:00] about London rental office, office rental properties. So it was just endless content about the same thing in extremely corporate speak.

And I managed to recover from that. So if I can recover from those years of having to just totally dull my own personality out and make everything sound the same. as excruciatingly corporate as possible, then I think it’s possible for anyone to get over that. So the second of all, some like practical tips on how you would do that.

Firstly, I don’t always write with personality. I quite often just write to get it out of the system the first time, and then you can add personality back in later. So just however you need to get it. done the first time and then it comes in edits. Like when I write my newsletter, I might spend two hours writing the newsletter because it goes through four different versions to keep tightening up.

So if it feels like, Oh, and if I write something, it feels a bit dull. Yes. That is how it sounds when you first write the first draft. And then you’re going to need to like add a bit of [00:27:00] personality to that. Then Quickest way to like, get it, tap into your personality is you need to think about what makes, like, when do you feel most you?

Is there a certain music that you listen to and you’re like, yeah, that’s me. Or are there characters in TV shows or films that you really identify with, or like, could be a particular scent on a candle that really brings you alive. It’s something that helps you. reconnects with that, the person that’s most you on a really, really good day.

Not the person that’s just had to spend 30 minutes peeling potatoes because they’re halfway through making dinner. Like that’s, we all feel a bit dull and boring because we all have to do those dull and boring things, but we need to be able to find a way to tap back into that, like, this is me. And then.

Your, like how you use language is something that’s really difficult to understand. Like you’re the person saying the things, so it’s very hard to hear your own voice. That’s like, to be able to hear and then re express your own voice and make yourself sound in writing the way that you sound when you speak is, it’s difficult.

And people are not going to love this bit of advice, but if you can listen back to anything like [00:28:00] podcast interviews that you’ve recorded, even client conversations, I did this, it was with Zane Coles, because. For me, when I was, I don’t do my client work via Zoom calls now, but when I did, there would be a moment where they asked me a question and I could feel, like, I could even feel it in my cheeks, like, I know how to help, like, I’ve got such a good answer to this.

I know exactly how to help you with this. And if I listened back to how I was then, that is me at my most, like, enthusiastic, energetic, my most me, that will help me translate that into something that’s in writing. It is, it is uncomfortable. But is that, is that enough practically? It sounds like more of a, like, mushy soup than step by step process that I’ve just given you there.

No, no, that’s really 

Laura AW: helpful. I think it, it’s, it is just that kind of I suppose there’s a little bit of reminding them that it’s, that you’re allowed to talk like that. Because again, I think there’s, you know, we briefly mentioned in the start of the, but before we hit record about you know, especially for health coaches, like, because, and again, I think this is a [00:29:00] similar for life coaches who are perhaps more in like the career kind of space and things as well, is that we think we have to talk with a certain voice.

But actually, when Especially for getting clients, I think people need that connection with you. And if it’s just like, beige, a bit like, you know, talking about insurance products or whatever. Doesn’t 

Laura R: sound that inspiring, does it? Like, let me try and think of an analogy. Have you ever seen something I feel really mean saying this, but like, have you ever seen something on Etsy?

And you’re like, that’s nice. Let me go to Google and see where else I can buy it. Like, yeah, yeah. Let’s get the shop around. I feel mean saying it, but then on the other hand, quite a few things that turn up on Etsy do happen to be available to buy in lots of different places, because they weren’t actually like made by someone.

That’s it. If you don’t have connection and personality, that’s, that’s all you are to someone. Like if you present them with, you could, I can help you in this way. And I’ve got this offer. And these are the ways I can make your life better. They very possibly will go, that sounds amazing. Let me just see what other health coaches are also promising that [00:30:00] because I want to shop around a bit and see, find someone who’s a really good match.

Because if you’re like blind, you’re just a commodity. You’re just, washing up powder. You’re just a thing that can do a job and they don’t really care. Like, but it’s you. Yeah. If they can connect with who you are, it’s almost works the other way around where they’re like, well, I don’t really care. Like specifically what the packages look like.

You tell me you can help me with this thing. And I really like your style. So let’s do something together. And, and then what you’re selling almost become secondary to that. And they definitely aren’t going to trouble themselves with shopping around because everyone else will show up a second best to you because you were the one they fell in love with first.


Laura AW: Yeah, that’s exactly it and I think that’s what’s, that’s what is like at stake when you don’t do that because you do just become like another, you know, and I think this is another reason to, because a lot of, you know, you can buy a lot of copywriting stuff that is just like fill in the blanks and do this and do that and it’s all just very cookie cutter and I get that for some people there’s a place and a time for cookie cutter stuff but [00:31:00] actually I think, like, this is one of the reasons why I don’t like the cookie cutter approach, and I can imagine you’re probably similar ish in some ways, but like, I think there’s having ideas and prompts to get you started, but actually nothing can really replace, like, the things that make you you, and getting those 

Laura R: things across.

But the problem I find with the templates, like I’ve worked with clients where they’ve used, you know, they’ve paid for these templates and they’ve used them and then they send them and they’re like, well, something’s a bit off. I don’t know what it is. And besides the fact that it doesn’t really sound like that quite often, it doesn’t make any sense because they’ve tried to adapt the template.

To be the thing that they wanted to say or sell the thing at the time they want to sell it. And they’ve tried to put their personality into it, but they’re also kind of wedded to the idea that it needs to still be that template. I need the person who owned the template to be able to recognize that I used their template to write this email, or I used their template to create this thing.

And. Then it doesn’t work because you’re basically the email is trying to fulfill way too many jobs at once or the piece of copy that you’ve written using the template. I think they definitely have their place. Almost like I said, just [00:32:00] write the boring version first. Use the template to write the really boring version first.

Then stop looking at the template and forget that it exists and start working on your first draft and edit it as many times as you need to for it to make sense, for it to sound like you, for it to have a flow. And it doesn’t matter if the person who. created that template, looked at your email, and wouldn’t recognize that it came from that template.

They won’t care, but they’ll be really happy that you took something that they created and ran with it and that they were an inspiration enough. They are not invested in the fact that something has to look exactly like their template. I create kind of templates for like about pages, sales pages inside my courses.

And if someone says to me, you won’t recognize this, like it doesn’t look anything like what you taught me, but this is what I use, I used your course to create the sales page. I still do a really happy dance because my goal was for them to create a sales page. I don’t care whether it looks like my sales pages or not.

Laura AW: Yeah, absolutely. I think it’s it’s helpful having that framework. It’s the, it’s like the stuff that’s just too formulaic, but I think this is [00:33:00] exactly it. It’s, it’s that starting point, isn’t it? And sometimes when you’re staring at a blank page. 

Laura R: It’s really hard 

Laura AW: to know where to even begin, which I think is a, there’s a lot of, you know, a lot of my clients really struggle with that and in being able to just know where to start with a lot of these things.

Because it’s not the start, isn’t it? Copywriting is a skill that you’ve got to learn 

Laura R: for yourself, isn’t it? When you can’t get started, it’s usually because people are trying to start at the beginning. So they’re like, what am I going to put as the first line of my email? Or what should go at the top of my sales page?

How do I open my about page? I’m like, don’t start there. That’s the hardest bit. Like, just forget that. And I write, when I write for a client, I will write a line that says, Some great opener here about this amazing thing that they sell. And then some, I’ll probably list some features and then like, whatever’s the easiest bit.

Okay. Well, I know that the product includes these things. So I’ll just start with those bullet points and a bit about what the benefits of that are. And I know a little bit about them. So I’ll go like two thirds of the way up the page and do that bit. Like I never, don’t start at the beginning. Like that’s the difficult bit.

Do that bit last. [00:34:00] And I think that is one 

Laura AW: of the best tips we’ve had, and I’m definitely going to use that one, because I hate writing email newsletters. In fact, that’s on my list for later on today. And I’m going to use that tip, I’m not going to start at the start, because that’s the hardest bit. The intro is always the most difficult, 

Laura R: tricky bit.

It feels painful. And I used to write them, and then I’d write the email, and then I’d go back and delete the intro, because it didn’t really match the thing I’d written. And I was like, why am I doing this? Is this the right thing I know? 

Laura AW: Subject lines and emails as well, like I’ll write the subject line and then I’ll start writing the email.

I’m like, oh, that’s not the, that’s, what was I going to talk about before? That’s 

Laura R: not what it was. 

Laura AW: Well, thank you so much, Laura. This has been a really, really great chat. And I always ask everyone at the end of our interview, our chat is what is your version of success? Cause like I say, a lot of what my work is about is about, you know, going after your version of success.

Not worrying about what, bit like what we’ll talk about at the start, not worrying about, you know, kind of what we think success should look like in terms of, you know, six figures and, you know, massive online followings and things, but what does your version of success look 

Laura R: like for you and your business?[00:35:00] 

I actually wrote an email about this a couple of weeks ago and it was, it was about an email about scrambled egg and it has been like the biggest response I’ve ever had. So I came back from, I’d run an errand, I came home and my 18 year old was in the mood, he likes to cook and he’s in the mood to cook and he’s like, Oh, we’ve got some smoked salmon in the fridge.

And like, do you want me to make you smoked salmon scrambled eggs? And I’ll make some for you and dad. I was like, yeah, I don’t even care what time of day. It was like, yes, absolutely. So he made the food and he like makes a bunch of mess in the kitchen which is totally fine. And we, me and his dad, and we sat down and watch something together.

And I, in the middle of the day, like scrambled egg, his dad works from home so he could sack off work for half an hour. I worked for myself, so I could sack off work for half an hour. And I was like, this is it. Like, I never wanted enough money to have a private chef. I don’t want to have enough money even to have like my food, you you know, the pre delivered food that’s all done for you.

I want to have enough money that we have good ingredients in the fridge. If it’s smoked salmon, that’s amazing, but it’s not always that. I want to have enough money to have a well stocked fridge. I want to have enough money that I don’t, it doesn’t [00:36:00] stress me out that maybe that’ll get wasted and it’ll create something that’s inedible.

But most of the time it turns out to be amazing. And I want to have enough time. and freedom with that time so that the moment my 18 year old says, Hey, I want to spend 30 minutes with you. It doesn’t matter what time of day it is. I can go absolutely. Yes, I’m here for you. I’m, this is, you’re going to get my attention because I don’t know.

Like how many more times I’ve got like that and also to have enough ease and space in my life that when I look at that kitchen, I’m not thinking, Oh, God damn it, I’ve now got to clean this kitchen. It’s like, it’s okay. It was worth it. It was worth it for the moment. I’m just going to go and clean the kitchen because I don’t have like a pressure that means that that time is lost somewhere else.

And that really felt like, it’s moments like that. I don’t really have like, I don’t have a vision board. I don’t have a big goal. I just, it’s moments like that where I’m like, That’s, that is exactly the balance between money, time and freedom that I was looking for, and it was just a plate of scrambled eggs.

Yeah. Oh, I love that. That’s amazing. Yeah, that’s 

Laura AW: absolutely fab. I think a lot of people will definitely get that. I think that’s what a lot of us are aiming for. 

Laura R: Nothing, you know, 

Laura AW: Extravagant or like, you know, [00:37:00] a Porsche on the drive or anything like that, but just so simple, that simple like balance, isn’t it?

And being able to live the life that you were, that you want and yeah, that’s amazing. Oh, thank you so much for sharing. That’s been really great. Where can people find you if they want to learn more about you? And I’ll put links in the description. 

Laura R: So my website is wordofyou. co. uk and if you go to forward slash newsletter, you can come and join the comfy business newsletter, which is the best way to stay in touch with me because I’m really very erratic on social media.

Laura AW: I’m noticing that’s a theme with a lot of the guests. The last guest I had on Michelle Pumphrey, she’s not on social media either. And we were having a big conversation about that because I think I think that’s another thing that’s become a more popular is like, Instagram just kills you. So, but 

Laura R: like, I don’t really get it.

Like I tried, I actually tried last night. I went to LinkedIn. I was like, everyone tells me I should be on LinkedIn. And I was looking, I was like, I don’t, it just feels like people post something and then lots of people comment so that we can see that they exist, like the comments not. They don’t really care enough.

It’s just the comments. I was like, and that’s [00:38:00] what happened over Instagram. Quite often I get comments. I’m like, oh, okay. I feel like you just wanted me to know that you exist. It’s not a real comment. So I thought, yeah, I just, I can’t dial into the attraction to really get on board with it. Yeah, it’s, 

Laura AW: it’s definitely, I think there’s, it’s, It’s more of a thing now that people are like, actually, yeah, you can run your business without social media if you don’t enjoy it.

So it’s yeah, it’s, it’s another lesson. So don’t go and follow you on Instagram. 

Laura R: I mean, you can sometimes I occasionally post a picture of like the beach or, you know, that’s all my best seal updates on Facebook because I share like when they go to the rescue center, I’ll share an update. But like, here they are, this is how they’re doing.

But otherwise I’m not really on there. Oh, bless them. Oh, 

Laura AW: well, thank you so much. Everyone go and check out all of Laura’s stuff and and yeah, and thank you and I’ll see everyone next week. Thank you for having me. 



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